The UPLJ’s Interview With Jack Jupin

January 3, 2024

Jack Jupin for the UPLJ.

By: Tracy Osawe and Kaitlyn Kymer (Ed.)

Jack Jupin is the President and CEO of Jupin International. In that position, Mr. Jupin provides security consulting services to both individuals and organizations including but not limited to law firms, houses of worship and schools. Prior to founding Jupin International, Mr. Jupin was a Special Agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Mr. Jupin also served on the FBI Counterterrorism Squad following the attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001.

This interview of Mr. Jupin was conducted by the Senior Blog Editor of the Undergraduate Politics and Law Journal on November 29, 2023.

Please visit jupininternational.com for more information about the services provided by Jupin International.

Tracy Osawe: Before we start our discussion, can you tell me about what prompted you to pursue a career as a Special Agent with the FBI?

Mr. Jupin: I knew from a very, very young age that I wanted to be in law enforcement. And once upon a time somebody like me came to my junior high school and talked about his career in law enforcement, and that just kind of solidified my thoughts. But my main goal was helping people. I grew up in a big family, blue collar family, not a lot of money you know... But I was fortunate to have parents that provided me with strong moral values, strong Christian values and just always taught me to help people. So that was my main goal, to help people. But I didn’t know if I was going to make it to the FBI. But, you know, obviously the FBI was my goal and it ended up coming through. So that’s one of the biggest things I could tell you.

Tracy Osawe: So before you began with the FBI  you were a member of the New Jersey State Police force, is that correct?

Mr. Jupin: I was a State Investigator in New Jersey. I was working on Insurance Fraud Matters as a State Investigator.

Tracy Osawe: Got it.

Mr. Jupin: I came out of college and then for four years I worked mostly with the FBI and the United States Postal Inspection Services. That was my first experience working with the FBI, but from a different agency’s point of view! And then when we were done with our investigation, one of the agents actually said to me, ‘Why don’t you come work with us’? And I said, ‘I’d love to’. Then the [training] process began. Its a long and vigorous process. I think I mentioned in your class it takes a year – normally – to get through it. But I was able to get through it in four months, which was rare, but it was also a time where there had been a hiring freeze – for a long time – at the FBI. And they had just lifted it [the hiring freeze] that previous year, so they were bringing about fifty agents to Quantico [the FBI’s primary training facility] every two weeks. At any given time in Quantico there might have been about seventeen or eighteen classes of fifty agents each because they were trying to bring up their numbers again. So, things were done a little quicker back then. But still that competitiveness was there.

Tracy Osawe: Can you tell me a bit about what that FBI entry process looked like for you?

Mr. Jupin: It involved a written test and a panel interview. And there was a physical part to it too. Both medical physical and PT [Physical Training]. You know, the runs, the push-ups... And an extensive polygraph exam, a lie detector test and an extensive background check. And all that just takes a lot of time. But in my case, because I did know somebody that was kind of helping me along, they [the FBI] would call me if anybody ever canceled along the way. ‘Oh, I can’t make the interview this day’. Well, I got bumped up. ‘Oh, I can’t make the PT test’. I got bumped up. But its only because somebody would cancel and they knew me. And they wanted to see me get through it. But again, it was the kind of thing where they can get me in the front door – to take the test and go through the process – but that doesn’t get you the job. You get the job on your own.

Tracy Osawe: Yeah.

Mr. Jupin: Your own merits and your own skill sets.

Tracy Osawe: So do you see that happening today? In terms of the process being expedited for any reason?

Mr. Jupin: Today I think its a lot longer for several reasons. I think there’s a lot more applicants. They’re not hiring as many people as they were back then. And, you know, I hate to say it but it’s a bureaucracy. I mean technically you could really get it [the process] done in two months. For example, if I was just concentrating on you and my job is to see if you can get in and take the test... I’ll know in two days (or one) if you pass. And if you pass on a Monday, I could get you that panel interview by the end of the week. So you could do it, but they just have too many people that are doing it.

Tracy Osawe: And where do those panel interviews normally take place?

Mr. Jupin: The interviews are regional. So my interview, even though I worked out of the Newark, New Jersey field office, my interview was in New York City. So you may have to travel. But they’re in major cities like Miami, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston. All over the United States really, but in major cities for the most part. But, you know, you do whatever it takes if you want the job.

Tracy Osawe: Wow. Its really blowing my mind because one year to four months is quite the difference.

Mr. Jupin: Yeah, but it was kind of a thing. I remember showing up for my panel interview sicker than a dog with the flu. I had a hundred and two temperature. But they [the FBI] called me the day before and literally said, ‘Hey somebody just cancelled. Do you want to take their spot’? And I’m like yup, I’ll go. The first thing I said when I walked in there was, ‘I apologize, I have the flu. So you might want to stay away from me. But the opportunity came up last night and I really want this job’. And I was willing to do anything. And I think that alone impressed them. And I answered all their questions. Its a lot of situational type questions. ‘Tell me a time when you were in this situation’ or ‘Tell me a time when you were in that situation. And what did you do with the results’? So its the kind of stuff that you would actually expect. But still, it was a grueling process. And the polygraph is no fun because they ask you everything under the sun. And you can’t get past it. People think they can lie their way through it, but it doesn’t happen. It really doesn’t.

Tracy Osawe: And I also recall you mentioning that the FBI contacts references as part of the entry process?

Mr. Jupin: Yeah. Like when you fill out a job reference and they’re like ‘give us three or five references’. Of course you’re gonna put your three or five best friends, right? You’re gonna put people that you know are gonna tell the “truth”. But you know what they [the FBI] do? Say you’re a reference to somebody and I’m interviewing you. At the end of the interview I’m gonna ask you to tell me two or three other people that know that person. And I’m going to do that to every reference that they put down. So now I have many people that the person didn’t put down but know that person. So we will find out. If the person did something with more than one person, somebody might decide to not lie for them.

Tracy Osawe: Have you ever had somebody use you as a reference?

Mr. Jupin: Yeah. I had somebody who I’d gone to high school with use me as a reference. And he made the biggest mistake in the world. He never called to ask me if he could use me as a reference. And I was already an FBI agent at that time. I got a call from the FBI saying ‘Hey, this guy Mark applied for the FBI and he’s using you as a reference’. I’m like ‘Mark who’? But I knew who he was because I had gone to high school with him. But I hadn’t talked to him in ten [or] fifteen years. And he wasn’t a bad guy. But I’m like... I can’t give him a reference. And I literally said that to the background investigator. I can’t give a reference to somebody I haven’t talked to in fifteen years. The one guy I did give a reference to, who I did know and had seen very recently, failed the polygraph for drugs. So you know, I’m certainly not gonna put my name next to somebody that I didn’t see in fifteen years.

Tracy Osawe: Speaking about the subject of reputation, what is your stance on social media?

Mr. Jupin: I say it all the time to colleges and stuff. You heard me stress it. Social media? Stay away from it. You know, as far as putting up derogatory or hateful speech or prejudicial speech. It will come back and bite you. And as I mentioned, it will not only bite you if you’re going into law enforcement. But it will bite you if you’re going for any job. I mean, you just saw an example of it. I don’t know how much you’ve watched the news since the Israel-Hamas war, but a Harvard student was offered this great job and they rescinded it. They rescinded the job because the student wanted to be part of the crowd and probably didn’t really care about the issue.

Tracy Osawe: Thank you for mentioning the lack of care regarding that matter. Because there are several members of my generation that essentially know nothing about the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict. They just know that the Israel-Hamas war is a trend and they want to ride that trend for as long as they can. And then when someone with a little more knowledge fires back, especially a figure of authority, its ‘This person is trying to paint me in a negative light’! But rarely do they ever take a step back and say ‘Oh... maybe I shouldn’t have said what I said. Maybe I should’ve just kept those thoughts to myself’...

Mr. Jupin: You know its interesting because I say this stuff all the time to people. Everybody has a right to their own beliefs. Everybody has the right to have an opinion. But I think that before you start voicing your opinions you should make sure you know your facts. And articulate your facts. And if you can do so, then I think that would give you a lot more credibility. Instead of just going out there saying kill the Jews or kill the Palestinians, that’s ridiculous. I mean I was fortunate enough to travel the world and work in the inner city, the most affluent neighborhoods, the Middle East, Africa and Southeast Asia. That gave me the chance to see so many people from so many cultures. And as I said in class 99.9% of the people in this world are good people. Yes, there are percentages of everybody that are bad. I can give you the far-right bad ones, far-left bad ones, the union, the race, the ethnicity, the religion. They all have their bad actors, but most people aren’t. I’ve seen a lot of evil and hatred, but I’ve seen a lot of good too.

Tracy Osawe: And I completely agree with that! I wish my generation would pay closer attention to these issues. Background checks play a big role in our professional futures.

Mr. Jupin: I can’t stress that enough. For every guy like me that you meet, there’s a hundred thousand more guys like me doing exactly what I’m doing. Guys and girls are out there doing background checks of these kids coming out of college. And its not even for jobs. Its for law school. Its for med school. And you know what? They’re gonna look at all that stuff. You get arrested in a protest and you think you’re making a statement because you’re handcuffing yourself to your car, on a bridge, and you’re throwing the keys over. Try and go to law school then. Good luck to you. You can make your point if you really believe that point, that’s fine. But if you’re doing something to actually get yourself arrested, now you’ve crossed the line.

Tracy Osawe: And as a future law school student I hear you loud and clear. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Mr. Jupin: [Laughs].

Tracy Osawe: So, what would you say was the highlight of your career as a Special Agent with the FBI?

Mr. Jupin: There are a couple of highlights. I mean, almost every day was a highlight for me. I loved going to work. I really did. One highlight was when I was working on a gun trafficking investigation. I was working in the vicinity of Newark, New Jersey. In a different town but close by. And these two brothers were trafficking guns. They were going to North Carolina. Buying guns down there and bringing them up north. And I had an informant who was giving me the information. Then I started doing the background checks. I started working them up. And he had a couple co-conspirators. So there was about three, four of them that were involved. One was female and three of them were men. But two of them were brothers. And early on in the investigation I realized that this one brother, who was younger, had never been in trouble ever in his life. Not even a speeding ticket. The older brother had three or four felony convictions. And some of them were aggravated assault, weapons possession. So long story short, the day we arrest him (and we arrest them all), I bring that kid aside and I talk to him. I said ‘Listen, if you could give me consent to search your car, search your house and you are willing to work with us to testify against your brother and his friends’, I said ‘I’m going to go to the judge and do everything I can to help you’. Because the kid made an awful mistake going with his brother. And I know he felt peer-pressured. He told me, but I knew it anyway. Long story short, the older brother goes to jail. I think for ten or twelve years. The younger brother had to plead guilty, but we gave him the minimum charges we could. And three of us [FBI agents] testified at his sentencing hearing that we didn’t believe he should go to jail. He made a mistake. But the sentence, I mean, he was looking at three to five years as a co-conspirator in a federal prison. But at the time judges had some leeway. They could really go with whatever they felt. This judge ended up giving him three hundred and sixty-four days home confinement. Anything three hundred and sixty-five days you have to go to jail. So three hundred and sixty-four you can serve it at home with an ankle bracelet. And this kid never went to jail. Yes, he did plead guilty to a felony. But he never went to jail. Stayed home for a year. I would periodically run his name throughout my career in the FBI, just to see if he ever got in trouble again, never got in trouble. So you talk about a highlight... Its something good you did that changed somebody’s life. A different agent might have done things a whole lot differently than I did. But I had a lot of sympathy and compassion for the kid. He came from a poor family and selling guns was a way of making money and living life. And this kid did all the right things to help the government. And he never got in trouble again to my knowledge.

Tracy Osawe: And I know you also worked with the counterterrorism squad after 9/11. Can you recall any highlights from that period?

Mr. Jupin: After 9/11 unfortunately it wasn’t a highlight. 9/11 was horrible. But I was glad to be a part of the investigation and to be in the fight. If you recall, eleven of the nineteen hijackers were in New Jersey. Paterson and Jersey City. But working that investigation ended up leading me around the world to twenty-seven countries. I was all over the world and that gave me experience. So the highlight of that [9/11] would be just bringing bad people to justice. For example, I indicted somebody, who had never been in the United States, for material support of terrorism. We captured him in Bangkok, Thailand. And he was behind a lot of terrorist attacks. He was a bomb maker. So I hope I helped people by bringing this guy to justice. Out of that, I think we indicted eleven people for material support and terrorism charges. Those people were never changing their ways. They were extremists. A lot of them are sitting in federal prison for the rest of their lives. I spent a lot of time in Guantanamo Bay in 2002. Down there you really confronted known terrorists, people that were caught on the battlefield. And you know they’re looking at you saying, ‘If you take these handcuffs off me, I’ll kill you right now’.

Tracy Osawe: Did that ever scare you? Having to engage in such close contact with well-known extremists?

Mr. Jupin: I don’t know if those situations scare me. I mean... there were a couple times overseas where I didn’t think we were coming home. I remember being in the jungles outside Jakarta, Indonesia. We [FBI agents] were looking for a bomb-making factory and we really didn’t have the firepower. There were three of us [FBI agents]. Three six-two, six-three white guys in the middle of the jungle outside of Jakarta, Indonesia (in a little village) with two Interpol Officers. And the Interpol Officers were scared for God’s sake. I mean, at one point our van got surrounded and we’re looking at each other like...

Mr. Jupin: [Stares briefly].

Mr. Jupin: We’re looking for a bomb-making factory. And you know what? We found it. We were able to find it and I think at one point the people got scared of us. But I mean, you’re talking about a village that’s two-hundred miles outside of Jakarta... We stuck out like sore thumbs. It was no indecision of who we were. We were some kind of agency. They probably thought we were CIA, but you know, we’re FBI.

Tracy Osawe: Its amazing to hear the passion in your voice when you talk about your career. But now that you’ve retired, do you ever feel like you want to go back into the FBI again? Or are you done?

Mr. Jupin: I mean, part of me, yeah. You want to go back into the fight so to speak. You’ll hear military guys say that, you’ll hear cops say that, you’ll hear federal agents say that. You want to be part of the fight, the good fight, we called it. You want to be part of the good fight. But its the people I miss the most. You really end up having really strong bonds with your colleagues and its tremendous. To this day, I’m on a group text with about four or five guys from all different agencies: FBI, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, State Police. And we talk about everything from how bad the Giants are doing this year, the war and them giving me a hard time about being on TV and all that.

Tracy Osawe: [Laughs].

Mr. Jupin: Now I’m a Chinese spy balloon expert. Which was one of the many shows I did on Fox News. My phone literally blew up. I must have gotten fifty texts when I was done. ‘Oh, so now you’re a Chinese spy balloon expert’? But it was funny though because you have to be able to laugh at yourself. And really have a sense of humor, you know, because you do see a lot of tragedy as I said. I lost my partner, Barry Bush, in the line of duty. He went to work that day. As I said in class. But he didn’t think he wasn’t coming back and neither did his family. But you know, tragedy strikes. We also lost an agent on 9/11. Lenny Hatton. Who was walking to 26th Federal Plaza. He [Lenny] saw the buildings get hit. But Lenny kept going in and out of the buildings helping people get out. And then went in one more time. Buildings came down and he never came out.

Tracy Osawe: 9/11 must have really altered several aspects of your life.

Mr. Jupin: It changed the rest of my life. It changed my personal life, my professional life. I never wanted to work terrorism. But now [after 9/11] I did. I took that personally. They attacked my country. It changed my family life. As I said in class, I ended up divorced with two wonderful children who I’m very close with to this day. It brought me away from them. I think I mentioned that after Katrina my daughter was three weeks old and bam! I’m deployed for a month. Middle East, I’m deployed [t]here for six weeks. Forty days [t]here. You know, two weeks here. I left my wife and two kids at home because we’re [the FBI] fighting the fight. It does come with a lot of personal and professional ramifications post 9/11. But this is what you’re signing up for. I wanted to do the mission of the FBI and that’s what the mission turned into.

Tracy Osawe: So do you think that counterterrorism tactics actually serve to neutralize extremist ideologies?

Mr. Jupin: Human intelligence is a very, very significant thing in the intelligence world. You know, its one thing to listen to a telephone or intercept an email. That’s one thing. We [the FBI] can do that. But when you have another human being coming to you and saying, ‘I’m part of this group. This is what the group is planning to do. This is how they’re going to do it’. You know, basically getting in their minds. That’s a much bigger deal. A much bigger deal. And I was able to do that successfully both in the United States and overseas. And I can just tell you this: we have recruited some very high-level officials from other countries that actually worked for us [the FBI] and worked directly for me. And I mean, we would pay people hundreds of thousands of dollars for information. Some people did it out of loyalty. You know, even to their own religion. I think I mentioned working in densely populated Muslim communities. Most people would say ‘This is not my religion. This is not what we’re taught. We’re not taught to kill’. And you get a lot of those people that come over to our side, so to speak, and say, ‘You know what? This is what I heard the other day’. But do I think we’re gonna change their ideology? No, I’m not. But what its gonna do is allow us an opportunity to interdict and potentially stop. I can’t tell you the number. But a significant amount of attacks have been stopped in this country post 9/11. And the number is well into the double digits. I’m sure by now its in the triple digits of attacks prevented in this country because somebody told us something. And then once you tell me something, I can use wiretaps and look at your computer. And your hard drive. I can do search warrants and covert search warrants that you don’t even know I was in your house. I have done those. But I mean, probably you’ll get one or two that will convert... But extremists? Like I said earlier in our conversation, in any religion, in any ethnicity, race, sometimes it takes a lot more than what we do to change ideology. The only thing I say is we are able to neutralize a lot of things because of what we are doing. But it was with the help of people. Human intelligence.

Tracy Osawe: How does your work now differ from what you did as a Special Agent with the FBI?

Mr. Jupin: Well, my work now, I do the same thing as I did in the FBI. My job now is still to protect people. Physically protect people, protect their corporations, protect their business relationships, protect what’s important to them. Their image. Things like that. So my job is pretty similar. The only difference is I don’t have the powers of the federal government anymore and I can’t make people talk to me. But I couldn’t make people talk to me then either. Unless I had a subpoena to serve. But I don’t have subpoena power anymore. So when I talk to people I still have to use all my people skills. All my intrapersonal skills. You know, now I had to learn QuickBooks. I had to learn how to invoice because I never did that before. I have to learn Excel a little better. I have to learn a lot more computer stuff. Luckily I have people surrounding me that are very talented and they do an awesome job of helping me. You can’t do it alone. It’s a tough thing to do. And my business is truly international. I continue to work internationally. I have a job right now. Working in Israel. Which has been definitely affected by the war. My contacts even. Some are now fighting in the war. So its tough. I’ve done jobs in the UK. I’ve done jobs in Asia. I’ve done jobs all over the world because my contacts are still in places that need these jobs done. So its been a good experience. I love it. I love working for myself. But you’re always hustling. I’ll go on vacation with this computer with me and with my phone with me. That’s me. I’ll be sitting by the pool with my computer on. So its kind of the same. I’m still protecting people. And that’s my job. Now I just make a little bit more money doing it.

Tracy Osawe: That’s nice. It really is. Its like... you still get to do what you love, just in a different format.

Mr. Jupin: Basically, yeah. I mean I still carry a weapon. I don’t have a badge anymore, but I still carry a weapon. I’m still in touch with the Bureau. I’m still in touch with some former CIA. I’m still in touch with a lot of my old contacts. So that’s the part I talked about before. About just having those contacts and those relationships. But I also consider a lot of these people my friends. My closest friends in the world so to speak.

Tracy Osawe: Love that. So final question, which is always one of my favorite questions... [laughs]. If you could go back in time, would you do anything differently as it pertains to your career in the FBI?

Mr. Jupin: I don’t know, I don’t think so. I mean nothing jumps out at me. I don’t regret anything in the Bureau. I wish I could have stayed a street agent longer. I didn’t want to be a Supervisor as I said in your class. But I didn’t have a choice in that. But as my mother would say, ‘everything happens for a reason’. Everything happens for a reason. So what I did, I did. And hopefully I change[d] people’s lives and I help[ed] people. Did I take some bad people off the street? Yeah, I did. But that said, I wouldn’t say I have any regrets. I still say it’s the best job in the world.

Tracy Osawe: Thank you so much for this opportunity! Its been very exciting to work on this interview!

Mr. Jupin: Thank you so much Tracy. Have a good day.